[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:02:21] <rdieter>	KDE SIG Meeting start... who's present today?
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:02:53] 	 * ltinkl is here
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:02:55] 	 * jreznik is here
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:04:07] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler, than, SMParrish, kde*foo: ping
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:05:43] <rdieter>	well, we can start slowly, esp since we don't have an agenda (hoiidays and all), so that'll be our first item: agenda topics
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:07:31] <Kevin_Kofler>	Present.
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:08:32] <jreznik>	4.1.4, RC1?
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:09:14] <rdieter>	okay that's a good one, topic 1:   4.1.4 vs 4.2.0-rc1
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:09:40] <Kevin_Kofler>	Easy one: F9 and F10 should get 4.1.4.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:09:46] <Kevin_Kofler>	Rawhide 4.2.0 RC1.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:10:38] <Kevin_Kofler>	The real question is: who is working on what? Or should we just do the usual "whoever gets around to it imports stuff"?
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:11:15] <jreznik>	looks like lot of work - two releases in one time
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:12:23] <rdieter>	shrug, if worse comes to worse... we could simply skip 4.1.4 altogether
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:12:47] <rdieter>	some distros are doing that
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:13:40] <rdieter>	I'd venture doing 4.1.4 wouldn't be too hard... shouldn't be too many changes there
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:13:49] <Kevin_Kofler>	Yeah, should be pretty simple.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:14:21] <ltinkl>	I'll do the 4.1.4
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:14:36] <ltinkl>	for F9 and F10, rawhide should get 4.2 anyway
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:15:13] <rdieter>	ok, looks like we have a plan.  the rest of us can hammer on 4.2
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:15:14] <Kevin_Kofler>	I'll try to sneak in the system-libical stuff while we are at it, I wanted to do it for f10-final, but then there was a bug, we know the fix now (I'll have to look up the bug report again to find it). Now we have to update kdepimlibs anyway so why not include it? :-)
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:16:12] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: ok, it'll be there for 4.2 anyway, but we'll have to keep out a careful eye for any other problems induced there
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:16:30] <ltinkl>	in the meantime, I plan to follow 4.2 development branch in svn
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:16:41] <ltinkl>	which makes backporting and fixing stuff easier
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:19:11] <rdieter>	oh yeah, 4.2 was branched too... wee.  alrighty, anything else to discuss?
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:19:21] Topic	rdieter sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- open discussion".
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:19:53] <rdieter>	anyone notice any juicy bugs lately? :)
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:20:21] <Kevin_Kofler>	The deadkeys not working with Qt/KDE apps in GNOME sounds pretty serious to me.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:20:35] <MathStuf>	anyone else seen krunner having gaps in it?
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:20:41] <MathStuf>	i can't reliably reproduce it
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:20:45] <Kevin_Kofler>	Filed at least 3 times now (one original and 2 duplicates).
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:20:52] <rdieter>	MathStuf: yes, but I was waiting for rc1 before complaining. :)
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:20:59] <Kevin_Kofler>	Sounds like bad interaction between evdev, GNOME and Qt.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:21:06] <MathStuf>	k
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:21:47] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: nod
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:23:38] <rdieter>	The Qt/KDE apps in gnome thing... how about we suggest filing some upstream bugs (@kde, @ghome?)... and see what feedback happens
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:23:53] <Kevin_Kofler>	Good idea.
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:24:38] <rdieter>	I'd venture (hopefully) the issue(s) here aren't fedora-specific
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:25:08] <Kevin_Kofler>	Apparently Ubuntu 8.10 isn't hit, but I guess they're simply not using evdev yet.
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:27:17] <Kevin_Kofler>	The information I could gather is that GNOME appears to use a different method of gathering Compose and deadkey data for evdev than KDE and so they don't work together.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:28:14] <Kevin_Kofler>	The right place to report this KDE-side is probably Qt Software (former Trolltech), because Qt-only apps are also hit.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:28:28] <Kevin_Kofler>	Even Qt 3 ones.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:28:34] <Kevin_Kofler>	But Qt 4 too.
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:28:51] <rdieter>	anyone here reproduce the problem (I know, that means using gnome)?
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:29:15] <rdieter>	else, we should suggest the original reporters, or someone who *is* experiencing it do the upstream reporting
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:30:32] <Kevin_Kofler>	I'm trying to fire up GNOME on my laptop to check this.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:31:40] <rdieter>	cool... hey something tickled a memory... Kevin_Kofler, what's the scoop on phonon-backend-gstreamer + kde-4.2?  any better for our (F11) needs yet?
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:32:33] <Kevin_Kofler>	I can't reproduce the issue under GNOME.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:32:42] <pingou_laptop>	hm I am running gnome... if I can be on any help :)
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:32:47] <Kevin_Kofler>	Maybe it only happens if the KDE apps haven't been set up under KDE first.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:33:00] <ltinkl>	I'd doubt that Kevin
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:33:17] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: or if kde isn't configured for evdev (ie, a migrated/upgraded system)?
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:33:19] <ltinkl>	but who knows, I'll try to reproduce it later
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:33:19] <Kevin_Kofler>	pingou_laptop: Have you seen anything like this: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=468590 ?
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:33:21] <buggbot>	Bug 468590: medium, medium, ---, than@redhat.com, ASSIGNED, Deadkeys not working in Qt/KDE applications in GNOME
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:34:12] <Kevin_Kofler>	rdieter: The scoop is that Amarok developers still consider phonon-gstreamer to be horrible (too many known bugs).
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:34:38] <Kevin_Kofler>	And I'm not aware of the output device mess (i.e. PA problems) being fixed yet either.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:34:47] <pingou_laptop>	deadkey = shortcut key ? as multimedia keys ?
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:34:55] <rdieter>	ok...
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:35:03] <Kevin_Kofler>	Deadkey = accent key.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:35:10] <pingou_laptop>	I have not read the report yet
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:35:14] <Kevin_Kofler>	I believe the circumflex accent is a deadkey on a French keyboard.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:35:26] <Kevin_Kofler>	The other accented letters are hardcoded.
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:35:47] <Kevin_Kofler>	The German layout uses deadkeys for all accents.
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:36:00] <pingou_laptop>	hm on kate I have trouble with " and ' I can not do é or è
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:36:06] <ltinkl>	deadkeys are used for letters like ěščřžýáíé
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:36:08] <pingou_laptop>	I'm checking again
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:36:08] <ltinkl>	:)
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:36:38] <pingou_laptop>	ok I confirm I can not do é, è ê on kate here
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:36:43] <ltinkl>	or rather those keys that are not present directly in the keyboard layout
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:37:15] <pingou_laptop>	this is what it gives : ´e`e^e
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:37:24] <Kevin_Kofler>	Yeah, that's exactly that bug.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:37:32] <MathStuf>	I've seen this at times
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:37:37] <ltinkl>	which reminds me this bug *might* be related to the layout switching problem I'd found earlier
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:37:48] <MathStuf>	starting a new Kate fixed it usually
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:37:55] <Kevin_Kofler>	Within a KDE session?
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:37:57] <Kevin_Kofler>	That's interesting then.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:38:02] <MathStuf>	sometimes kong address bar would do it too
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:38:05] <MathStuf>	*konq
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:38:22] <Kevin_Kofler>	The Konq address bar is weird for deadkeys indeed.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:38:31] <Kevin_Kofler>	I think it's due to the history popup.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:38:34] 	 * pingou_laptop is under gnome atm
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:38:43] <MathStuf>	inline-search (using '/') fails with it too
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:38:56] <Kevin_Kofler>	But I haven't seen this in Kate (and I couldn't reproduce it by booting my F10 laptop into GNOME either).
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:39:07] 	 * pingou_laptop goes back to work, ping if a gnome is needed ;)
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:39:51] <Kevin_Kofler>	In the Konq address bar, you have to click away the popup for the deadkeys to work.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:39:55] <Kevin_Kofler>	I think it's a different bug.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:40:04] <MathStuf>	4.1.85 doesn't have a dropdown anymore
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:40:05] <Kevin_Kofler>	Probably worth filing as well.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:40:19] <MathStuf>	wait, there it is
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:40:19] <Kevin_Kofler>	Huh? That's yet another bug then.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:40:24] <MathStuf>	just doesn't do bookmarks anymore
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:40:34] <Kevin_Kofler>	Ah OK.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:41:12] <Kevin_Kofler>	What do we do with the weather plasmoid? I have a heavily-patched version which builds against 4.1 (after backporting the weather dataengine from trunk into kdebase-workspace), but is missing several features and the tabbar looks horrible, so I don't think packaging this for 4.1 is a good idea.
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:41:43] <rdieter>	agreed, that's kde-4.2
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:41:45] <Kevin_Kofler>	So should I do a specfile without all the hacks and conditionals for 4.1 and submit that for review, targeting only Rawhide ATM (and F-10 and F-9 after the update to 4.2)?
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:42:01] <Kevin_Kofler>	Or should I wait for spstarr to fix the networking bugs first?
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:42:15] <Kevin_Kofler>	I think he expects us to wait until those are fixed.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:43:03] <rdieter>	let's defer to what spstarr wants
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:43:15] <jreznik>	why not submit it to review, cc-me and I'll do it
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:43:43] <rdieter>	but... reviewing early couldn't hurt
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:44:16] <Kevin_Kofler>	I'll get started on doing a specfile without the ugly conditionals.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:44:22] <Kevin_Kofler>	I have a specfile which should also work for 4.2 now, but it's full of conditionals for 4.1.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:44:49] <jreznik>	on kde-look there are several new interesting 4.2 plasmoids, emdek is working hard :) so maybe I can package them for rawhide too...
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:45:00] <Kevin_Kofler>	http://repo.calcforge.org/f10/weather-plasmoid/kde-plasma-weather.spec
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:45:07] <jreznik>	Kevin_Kofler: so clean it for 4.2 only
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:45:30] <Kevin_Kofler>	Yeah, I think killing the scary conditionals will make the review easier. :-)
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:46:23] <Kevin_Kofler>	Speaking of plasmoids, what about the NM plasmoid?
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:46:42] <Kevin_Kofler>	IMHO we really want that one for F11, and they said it should be ready around the same time as KDE 4.2.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:46:53] <Kevin_Kofler>	So we should look into packaging it.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:47:18] <Kevin_Kofler>	Also for F9/F10 updates, with 4.2 if ready, otherwise in a later separate update.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:47:43] <jreznik>	Kevin_Kofler: looks promising - I really don't like nm-applet
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:48:22] <Kevin_Kofler>	Neither do I, in fact I'm running the KDE 3 knetworkmanager on my laptop now.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:48:44] <jreznik>	cite: "Something I find a bit confusing is that it offers two context menues, one on right click and one on left click. I often find myself looking in both until I've found the option I've been looking for."
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:48:49] <Kevin_Kofler>	On this computer I don't use NM at all, but custom rc.local script hacks. ;-)
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:48:52] <jreznik>	http://vizzzion.org/?blogentry=839
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:49:35] <rdieter>	looks like won't be ready for prime-time until 4.3, but as a tech-preview/alpha soon
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:49:36] <jreznik>	he is absolutely right... I hope NM plasmoid will be more user friendly... 
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:49:43] <MathStuf>	jreznik: all GNOME applets are like that that I've seen
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:49:58] <MathStuf>	the selinux policy thing is like that
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:50:04] <MathStuf>	as is PK-gnome
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:50:29] <MathStuf>	jreznik: at least it'll act/look like other things in KDE
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:50:40] <Kevin_Kofler>	The keyring issue is what annoys me the most about nm-applet.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:50:55] <Kevin_Kofler>	IMHO we want the NM plasmoid as the default in F11.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:01] <MathStuf>	+1
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:02] <Kevin_Kofler>	If not, we should really reevaluate KNM.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:13] <jreznik>	+1
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:20] <ltinkl>	+1 if it gets usable in time with 4.2
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:32] <Kevin_Kofler>	In time for F11 which is after 4.2. ;-)
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:39] <Kevin_Kofler>	The KDE 3 KNM works great for me in F10, I don't see why it isn't the default.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:42] <MathStuf>	KNM lacks VPN config import :(
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:51:57] <Kevin_Kofler>	And I think it really shouldn't have been EOLed before the NM plasmoid is ready.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:52:34] <Kevin_Kofler>	KNM indeed doesn't support VPN.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:52:42] <Kevin_Kofler>	This is one of the reasons we didn't make it the default.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:52:52] <Kevin_Kofler>	The NM plasmoid apparently does support it though, see the screenshot. :-)
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:53:00] <rdieter>	knm is unsuitable as default, and a pain to maintain... that said, if you want to pick it up and un-EOL, go for it.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:53:01] <MathStuf>	I've had it working before
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:53:14] <Kevin_Kofler>	It's probably already more usable than KNM.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:53:25] <MathStuf>	but it hasnt worked lately (dies unexpectedly)
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:53:39] <jreznik>	I have to look on it tomorrow, looking forward for NM plasmoid!
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:53:40] <MathStuf>	and 802.1x options aren't all there in nm-applet either
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:54:01] <rdieter>	before we run out of time...  another (probably depressing) topic... upcoming conferences... anyone planning on attending anything soon?  FUDCon, Fosdem?
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:54:02] <MathStuf>	I've hacked it in the gconf files, but the applet overwrites at every opportunity
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:54:08] <MathStuf>	even when denied write access :(
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:54:18] <Kevin_Kofler>	rdieter: No.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:54:20] <Kevin_Kofler>	Not me.
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:54:40] <MathStuf>	if fudcon were this week...
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:55:02] <rdieter>	me either, had hoped to splurge for fosdem this year, but alas, this and next month are bad for me (which means on FUDCon or CampKDE either... boo)
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:57:59] <rdieter>	ok, looks like we're out of time for today, let's wrap up, thanks all.
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[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:58:19] <rdieter>	KDE SIG meeting end
[Tue Jan 6 2009] [17:58:21] Topic	rdieter sets the channel topic to "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_meeting_channel for meeting schedule".
